Really worth watching: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, May 23, 2024, Thursday. The Floor of the House of Representatives, Rep. James McGovern MA-2 exposing Republican bizarre ,undemocratic, fealty to Donald Trump; his multiple indictments, Trump’s covering up hush money payments to a porn star to influence the 2016 election, Trump’s conspiring to overturn the 2020 election, and his stealing classified documents.
McGovern’s remarks were struck from the congressional record. Rep. Jerry Carl AL-1 was Speaker Pro temp–is in over his head; an astonishingly poor performance. The Congressman from Alabama is a stereotype; The Old South. Not bright.
Great job by Lawrence O’Donnel here, as well, Rep Jim McGovern.
Transcript – Dialogue generated using CapCut, reviewed and edited, then formatting using A.I., ChatGPT for clarity.
Lawrence O’Donnell:
And I mean, no one knows the rules of the House of Representatives better than the honorable James Patrick McGovern, who started his career as a young man in the House of Representatives in 1981, working on the staff of South Boston Congressman Joe Moakley, who became the chairman of the House Rules Committee. Chair of the Rules Committee was Jim McGovern’s dream when he was elected to the House of Representatives in 1996. Jim McGovern finally became the chairman of the House Rules Committee in 2019, and now, with the Democrats in the minority, he serves as what they call the ranking member of the committee, meaning the highest-ranking member of the committee in the minority party. On the floor of the House today, Jim McGovern gave the rules of the House a new test, an unprecedented test.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Republicans are skipping their real jobs to take day trips up to New York to try to undermine Donald Trump’s criminal trial. No time to work with Democrats, but plenty of time to put on weird matching cult uniforms and stand behind President Trump with their bright red ties and pathetic props. Maybe they want to distract from the fact that their candidate for president has been indicted more times than he’s been elected. Maybe they don’t want to talk about the fact that the leader of their party is on trial for covering up hush money payments to a pornstar for political gain, not to mention three other criminal felony prosecutions he’s facing now. I understand why my Republican friends want to distract from Donald Trump. They don’t want to talk about how Trump had the worst jobs record since the Great Depression, how he sold out our allies and empowered our adversaries. So they bring silly things like this to the floor to deflect blame and distract from the fact that they have no real vision, just division, and no real plans to make life better for the American people. And with that, I reserve my time.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
The chair would like to remind members to refrain from engaging in personal personalities towards presumed nominees for the office of the president. The gentleman from Massachusetts reserves. The gentleman from Indiana is recognized.
Lawrence O’Donnell:
Massachusetts isn’t the only word that Jerry Lee Carl Jr. of Mobile, Alabama cannot pronounce. Jerry Lee Carl, who has no idea what he’s doing up there at the podium and has to read every word he says, was elected to the House of Representatives in 2020 and was defeated earlier this year in a Republican primary by a fellow Republican congressman from Alabama, who was redistricted out of a district and decided to take Jerry Lee Carl’s seat away from him. And so, these are Jerry Lee Carl’s final days in the House of Representatives. It is very unlikely he will say anything again in the House to come to our attention, but he had the misfortune yesterday of being the junior member assigned to the thankless task of mechanically presiding over the House when Congressman Jim McGovern presented him with a challenge that Jerry Lee Carl simply could not comprehend.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Yeah, Mr. Speaker, a few moments ago, I was admonished for stating the simple fact that the former president was indicted by a grand jury and is on trial in a court of law. That’s not my opinion; it’s just the truth. So I have a parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Speaker.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
The gentleman will state his inquiry.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Mr. Speaker, has the chair determined it’s unparliamentary to state a fact?
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
This chair is not in a position to determine the veracity of remarks made on the floor. Members must avoid personalities.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Yeah, well, that’s unbelievable. Last week during debate, a Republican member of this House said, and I quote, “Watch the former president of the United States being hauled into court day after day with a sham trial.” End quote. He wasn’t admonished. I just referenced the same trial, and I was. So, Mr. Speaker, I have to ask a further parliamentary inquiry.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
The gentleman will state his inquiry.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Mr. Speaker, is it correct that members of Congress can mention the trial of the presumptive nominee for president, call it a sham, and question the integrity of the judge, but a reference to the mere existence of that same trial without any characterization is out of order?
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
The chair will not issue an advisory opinion.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Well, one last parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Speaker. Is this restriction originally founded, at least in part, on the principle in Jefferson’s Manual that, quote, “In Parliament, to speak irreverently or seditiously against the king is against order,” end quote? Is that what this is about? I have Jefferson’s Manual here.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
Members must avoid personalities in debates. The chair will direct members to Rule 17 in Section 370 of the House Rules and Manual.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Yeah, so it is, in fact, based on that, on Jefferson, what’s in Jefferson’s Manual. Mr. Speaker, Donald Trump might want to be a king, but he’s not a king. He is not a presumptive king. He’s not even the president. He’s a presumptive nominee. And I know you’re trying to do your job and follow precedent, but frankly, at some point, it’s time for this body to recognize that there is no precedent for this situation. We have a presumptive nominee for president facing 88 felony counts, and we’re being prevented from even acknowledging it. These are not alternative facts; these are real facts. A candidate for president of the United States is on trial for sending a hush money payment to a pornstar to avoid a sex scandal during his 2016 campaign and then fraudulently disguising those payments in violation of the law. He’s also charged with conspiring to overturn the election. He’s also charged with stealing classified information, and a jury has already found him liable for rape in a civil court. And yet, in this Republican-controlled House, it’s okay to talk about the trial, but you have to call it a sham. Please take down his words. It’s okay to say the jury is rigged.
Rep. Erin Houchin (IN-9):
Mr. Speaker, I demand that his words be taken down.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
It’s okay to say the court is corrupt.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
The gentleman will suspend.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Not Trump is corrupting the rule of law.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
Indiana, the demand that his words be taken down. The gentleman from Massachusetts will be seated. The clerk will report the words.
Lawrence O’Donnell:
And so, the clerk of the House had to consult with the parliamentarian to find exactly which words Congressman McGovern said violated the rules of the House. It took over an hour, with the House floor silent for the entire time, before the clerk was ready to report the offending words.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
Order. The clerk will report the words.
Tylease Alli, House Reading Clerk:
We have a presumptive nominee for president facing 88 felony counts, and we are being prevented from even acknowledging it. These are not alternative facts; these are real facts. A candidate for president of the United States is on trial for sending a hush money payment to a pornstar to avoid a sex scandal during his 2016 campaign and then fraudulently disguising those payments in violation of the law. He is also charged with conspiring to overturn the election. He’s also charged with stealing classified information, and a jury has already found him liable for rape in a civil court. And yet, in this Republican-controlled House, it is okay to talk about the trial, but you have to call it a sham. It is okay to say the jury is rigged, but not that Trump should be held accountable. It is okay to say the court is corrupt, but not Trump is corrupting the rule of law.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
The chair is prepared to rule. The words of the gentleman from Massachusetts accused the presumed nominee of the office of president of engaging in illegal activities. The presumed nominee for the office of president is subject to the same treatments under the rules of decorum in debate as a sitting president. Actual party nomination nominees is not a prerequisite for treatments under their presided as though they are nominees. I messed that one up, I’m sorry. The chair has admonished members on numerous occasions.
Lawrence O’Donnell:
Yeah, you heard right. He said “abolished members” when he meant “admonished members.”
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
Although remarks in debate may include criticism of such candidates’ official positions as a candidate, it is a breach of order to refer to a candidate in terms personally offensive, whether by actually accusing or by merely insulting. Also, as stated in Section 370 of the Manual, the accusation that the president has committed a crime, or even that the president has done something illegal, is not in order.
Lawrence O’Donnell:
Yep, Jerry Lee said “the acquisition that the president has committed a crime” when of course he meant “the accusation that the president has committed a crime.” He’s not good at reading in public.
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
The chair relies on the precedents of March 19, 1988.
Lawrence O’Donnell:
Yeah, he meant “precedents,” but he said “precincts of March 19, 1988.”
Rep. Jerry Carl (AL-1):
And finds that the remarks constitute a personal attack. Without objections, the offensive words are stricken from the record.
Lawrence O’Donnell:
And so, those words will not be in the congressional record. So, this is the country you live in, in 2024, the country where it is against the rules of the House of Representatives to say:
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
The leader of their party is on trial for covering up hush money payments to a pornstar for political gain, not to mention three other criminal felony prosecutions he’s facing.
Lawrence O’Donnell:
Unbelievable.
Rep. James McGovern (MA-2):
Well, that’s unbelievable. Last week during debate, a Republican member of this House said, and I quote, “Watch the former president of the United States being hauled into court day after day with a sham trial.” He wasn’t admonished. I just referenced the same trial, and I was.
